> Some Japanese utilities have introduced tariffs designed to encourage daytime water heating as growing volumes of solar generation enter the grid. [Emphasis added.]
I was quite confused at the use of "tariff" here, as it meant to me a "tax on a good crossing a political boundary." Turns out, 'tariff' has an older meaning: a published schedule of fees or taxes issued by some authority.
I've read that the word is borrowed from Arabic, meaning notification, and I think at first it was price notifications and then people started using it to mean that the prices were bound to some schedule or condition.
For example in Turkish, "tarife" means only that: Conditional / Schedule-based pricing, and according to Sevan Nişanyan (a language researcher), Turkish borrowed it from Italian, where it was being used similarly. Import tariffs are a completely different word.
It apparently came to English through Italian -> Spanish -> French.
So I'm not a native English speaker but as far as I understand, import tariffs are just one kind of tariff.
Big fan of Etymology as well, mostly because my brain seemingly needs to understand the origin/history of terms to feel like I've fully grasped concepts.
In the UK you can get agile tarrifs now where the price changes through the day according to demand and supply predictions. There's an API you can use to control chargers, heaters, bitcoin miners etc.
US utilities also have Tariffs. It’s the statement of how the utility operates and charges users for service.
Anytime a utility needs to adjust costs/rates, they need to file a Rate Case with the public utility commissions, and resulting in changes to the Tariff.
It's an arab loan word for ~"price list" (originally strongly suggesting an import-duty-like meaning).
The same word exists in e.g. German or Italian, but mostly just means "pricing scheme" there, like in the article ("import duty" using a different expression in those languages).
Might be a mostly/somewhat "false friend" for a German (pv magazine is german).
Tarif/Tarife means price list of anything. Your barber, restaurant, taxi service, hospital can have one. tariff as in the meaning of custom tax is a very narrow meaning considering the usage of the word in general (but that's OK).
Import duty is "gümrük vergisi", and the general list of this is "gümrük vergisi tarifesi" in broad sense. It also has a more technical name here but both I don't remember it, and it doesn't matter in this context.
In the Japan's context we would call it "elektrik fiyat tarifesi", or "elektrik tarifesi" for short, for example.
It’s confusingly super common in the US for that usage when talking about trucking and shipping. Where of course the other kind of tariffs are also common.
Japan is so far ahead the rest of the world for quality and innovative heat pumps. Quiet, robust, high efficiency in cold climates. I wish they could bring the prices down though.
I worry in 15 years we will all have crapily made Chinese heat pumps for a fraction of the cost. Noisy, not robust, copying competitor designs not innovating, lower efficiency but easily replaceable. Theres probably an analogy here with software talent and AI but its too early to do that.
I'm a big fan of Chinese lenses. I reach for Japanese and German lenses when I want to take the highest quality photographs that look like the photographs all the other photographers take. When I want to take a picture like you've never seen before I reach for
It's true a $3000 lens from Sony has better optical quality than a $300 lens from China, like take a picture of a starry sky and you will see light rays bounce around a lot more inside the Chinese lens. But in terms of value and innovation Chinese lenses have a place, and many Chinese manufacturers are looking for this kind of opportunity for whatever they make.
China figured out how to make thermal imaging sensors as well. Why would you buy a $4,000 Flir with less resolution when you can get a $400 Topdon. What's funny is now it appears Flir has cut their prices dramatically to compete.
It's just not as prevalent in the residential HVAC market (which this product serves?), and more in the commercial/industrial space (probably because of the higher pressures needed to get into a liquid state).
It's useful though, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the gases generally used in HVAC tends to have much worse warming effect than co2 per volume.
We do need heat pumps deployed at large scale, but sometimes I worry we don't understand they need to be handled with care at the end of their life
That's true, old school refrigerants like R-12 are awful. The downside of modern replacement refrigerants are high operating pressure (>100 bar for R-744/CO2) or high flammability for natural refrigerants like R-290 (Propane) and R-600a (Isobutane).
But these are solely engineering problems, and I'm happy to know that my R-290 heat pumps at home (Panasonic L & Wolf FHS) and A/C (Midea Xtreme Save Blue) aren't awful to the environment, once they reach EOL.
Yeah, ammonia can also be used, it's, IIRC, more efficient to use it and a bit safer because you don't high pressure, buuut enough ammonia in the air will suffocate you.
It's lighter than air so it will go away by itself if allowed to. For a purely exterior instalation it's much better than anything else.
Yes, that dangerous effect is indexed as GWP - global warming potential.
CO2 has a GWP of 1 in this context, while other refrigerants are worse - for example, R32 has a GWP of 675 (so 675x worse if it escapes), not sure about R290 (Propane), which I believe is either about 40 or 14…
Regarding EoL: At least around here, household appliances such as fridges are brought to a recycling yard and are properly taken care of in that regard… and as for heatpumps - those are only to be installed by certified professionals, for this very reason.
If it is outside you can just use propane as refrigerant. Low warming value and it leaking to outside doesn't matter, not gonna catch on fire.
There are indoor devices using propane but they generally come with caveat "must be installed on room at least this m3", precisely so if it leaks it doesn't get to density that allows explosion
I believe there are propane using split AC systems where propane is used only in the outside unit. The outside unit has a heat exchanger transferring the heat to some glycol-water solution which is what then circulates through the inside unit.
CO2 does better with large temp deltas, like hot water tanks. Radiators don't produce large deltas - the inlet to outlet diff is typically under 10 degrees. But they run at higher pressures, making the manufacturing more expensive.
There are resident systems, and they're of exactly the type listed in the article (i.e. water heaters). Residential... area heating pumps, so to say, are moving towards propane (afaik). I've been looking into getting a propane monoblock air-to-water pump, with an antifreeze loop towards an indoors heat exchanger / water tank.
Trends for new refrigerant depends on country... some to R-454B, and some to Propane, doesn't seem like C02 is very common which is a pity because I love the idea of a non-toxic non-flammable super cheap refrigerant.
This is for the Japanese market so perhaps the cons of the C02 systems are outweighed by the safety aspects.
I'm actually in need of a new hot water tank and have been looking for a heat pump one. Wonder if these will be available in Australia, and how they compare to the current range.
“Hitachi has not yet disclosed full efficiency specifications for the two new models. Their predecessors, the BHP-FV37WD and BHP-FV46WD, have annual hot-water and heat-retention efficiency ratings under Japanese Industrial Standards (JIS) of 4.2 and 4.1, respectively.”
Technically your refrigerator heats up your kitchen in the same fashion adding extra work for your AC to compensate.
Unless you live in the artic where it's freezing year round, these things make sense. During the summer they reduce your cooling load and during the winter they are effectively heated by whatever your home heater is. Meaning if it's gas, then they are gas powered. If you have a heat pump outside then it's still pretty efficient. Even in the worst case of a resistive heater you are basically just running a slow resistive heater.
Technology Connections has recently published an in-depth piece of the advantages and disadvantages of in-room heat-pump water heaters [1].
The tl;dw is that it is significantly slower than a resistive or gas-powered water heater, and lowers the temperature of the room by a few degrees, but nothing major. You have to over-provision them compared to your needs. And they are way bigger.
> significantly slower than a resistive or gas-powered water heater
This was TC being a weirdo. He bought a 120V hot water heater. Had he done a regular 240V water heater the recovery time would be comparable to pure resistive water heaters.
But the takeaway about cooling is important. These things barely chill the room they are in.
I believe that for every joule of electricity used, 4 or 4.1 joules are pumped from the environment into the water. This is contrast to conventional water heaters which are bounded by an efficiency of 1, where, for example, burning gas directly heats the water with some heat leaking into the environment instead of the water.
I was quite confused at the use of "tariff" here, as it meant to me a "tax on a good crossing a political boundary." Turns out, 'tariff' has an older meaning: a published schedule of fees or taxes issued by some authority.
For example in Turkish, "tarife" means only that: Conditional / Schedule-based pricing, and according to Sevan Nişanyan (a language researcher), Turkish borrowed it from Italian, where it was being used similarly. Import tariffs are a completely different word.
It apparently came to English through Italian -> Spanish -> French.
So I'm not a native English speaker but as far as I understand, import tariffs are just one kind of tariff.
ps. I just f'ing love Etymology.
The same word exists in e.g. German or Italian, but mostly just means "pricing scheme" there, like in the article ("import duty" using a different expression in those languages).
Might be a mostly/somewhat "false friend" for a German (pv magazine is german).
Import duty is "gümrük vergisi", and the general list of this is "gümrük vergisi tarifesi" in broad sense. It also has a more technical name here but both I don't remember it, and it doesn't matter in this context.
In the Japan's context we would call it "elektrik fiyat tarifesi", or "elektrik tarifesi" for short, for example.
Cheers,
Your friendly Turkish HN user.
When I see "tariff", my mind only thinks of 関税 , and I was just as confused as you were. Turns out its just an item in a price schedule.
I worry in 15 years we will all have crapily made Chinese heat pumps for a fraction of the cost. Noisy, not robust, copying competitor designs not innovating, lower efficiency but easily replaceable. Theres probably an analogy here with software talent and AI but its too early to do that.
I'm a big fan of Chinese lenses. I reach for Japanese and German lenses when I want to take the highest quality photographs that look like the photographs all the other photographers take. When I want to take a picture like you've never seen before I reach for
https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-9mm-f-5-6-ff-rl/?srs...
or
https://findingrange.com/2022/01/14/7artisans-photoelectric-...
It's true a $3000 lens from Sony has better optical quality than a $300 lens from China, like take a picture of a starry sky and you will see light rays bounce around a lot more inside the Chinese lens. But in terms of value and innovation Chinese lenses have a place, and many Chinese manufacturers are looking for this kind of opportunity for whatever they make.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-744
It's just not as prevalent in the residential HVAC market (which this product serves?), and more in the commercial/industrial space (probably because of the higher pressures needed to get into a liquid state).
We do need heat pumps deployed at large scale, but sometimes I worry we don't understand they need to be handled with care at the end of their life
It's lighter than air so it will go away by itself if allowed to. For a purely exterior instalation it's much better than anything else.
CO2 has a GWP of 1 in this context, while other refrigerants are worse - for example, R32 has a GWP of 675 (so 675x worse if it escapes), not sure about R290 (Propane), which I believe is either about 40 or 14…
Regarding EoL: At least around here, household appliances such as fridges are brought to a recycling yard and are properly taken care of in that regard… and as for heatpumps - those are only to be installed by certified professionals, for this very reason.
There are indoor devices using propane but they generally come with caveat "must be installed on room at least this m3", precisely so if it leaks it doesn't get to density that allows explosion
This is for the Japanese market so perhaps the cons of the C02 systems are outweighed by the safety aspects.
CO2 refrigerant as well.
What does this mean?
Which means in winter that is extra work for your heating system to compensate for
But in climates where heating only really runs in winter it's great
Unless you live in the artic where it's freezing year round, these things make sense. During the summer they reduce your cooling load and during the winter they are effectively heated by whatever your home heater is. Meaning if it's gas, then they are gas powered. If you have a heat pump outside then it's still pretty efficient. Even in the worst case of a resistive heater you are basically just running a slow resistive heater.
The tl;dw is that it is significantly slower than a resistive or gas-powered water heater, and lowers the temperature of the room by a few degrees, but nothing major. You have to over-provision them compared to your needs. And they are way bigger.
[1]: https://youtu.be/F_7B2shTPPU
This was TC being a weirdo. He bought a 120V hot water heater. Had he done a regular 240V water heater the recovery time would be comparable to pure resistive water heaters.
But the takeaway about cooling is important. These things barely chill the room they are in.
And for the normal ones, at least they are leveraging outside temperature parts of the time while everything else stays at 1 in 1 out.