48000 out of 50000 in Ceuta's breach won't be migrating actually, since they've already returned voluntarily. Most either were agitators or have realised they weren't any better off on the other side.
Most have already migrated actually, unless you believe they were born in Morocco. And their intention was obviously to settle in Europe through Spain.
Geographically, they're not. Ceuta occupies a tiny corner of Africa. None of these people reached peninsular Spain and they are not migrants fleeing into Europe to live there.
Until it's proven they want to actually move there, they cannot be called migrants. In fact, 90% of them have gone back to Morocco, so not much permanence to speak of
If you watch the videos or interviews with the “migrants”, these are clearly just agitators and looters trying to have a good time by harassing the Spanish. None of them expect to suddenly become Spanish citizens. It’s like flash mobs or organized looting we see in the US organized by social media.
By your definition a migrant needs to cross borders and successfully settle on the other site. What do you call the people being forced back or stuck in holding facilities and internation camps then?
I'm talking exclusively about this particular breach. 48000 out of 50000 have returned voluntarily. I don't think that counts as trying, so talking about success is a category error. This was a (deadly) flash mob.
I assumed their qualifier was being applied to this case as well. However I don't think there's any ambiguity about who are we talking about in this specific thread of comments.
The upthread HN claim was that this "was an attack".
The Xitter claim was that:
Moroccan traffic police keeps directing thousands of illegal migrants toward the Spanish border fence in Ceuta.
This is a state-orchestrated invasion of Spain.
The video shows a small number of people on a small number of truck beds calmly going about a roundabout.
No visible attack, no proof that the people visible are "thousands of illegal migrants" nor of where they are or where they are headed.
Are you claiming this video shows free trains for immigrants?
It shows people on cars and police waiving them on like all the other traffic. So possible they especially were set up for the immigrants, but no idea how one can conclude that from this short clip.
Probably, but does not mean a state organized it. So if there was free transportation just for this day just for that route -> strong indicator of Morocco involved.
So, I a remain curious to the base of the claim, but so far it rather seems rumors.
It seems that dropping its own boarder enforcement, is a political lever that the Moroccan government sometimes uses in disputes with Spain. Is that what happened here? And these images of a flood of brown migrants, are useful to a lot of consent manufacturing projects, so are getting amplified?
Whoever was the main one to have coordinated this should be punished. In case of Finland it was Russia to have coordinated this. In case of Spain, the most logical actor was Morocco. There should be sanctions that are rigidly enforced here. It should also be treated as a military attack against the EU by Morocco, aside from sanctions.
Yes, a concerted campaign on TikTok and Instagram (hint hint) targeted these people with lies about the consequences of a supreme court ruling on immigration. This happened soon after Spain proposed an EU measure to break association with Israel.
Well, this is certainly the case. Many migrants said that they were encouraged and directed by Moroccan police that informed people in advance, removed border controls and on the crossing site, encouraged people to cross.
It's an exaggeration to call this an attack - those people were not military, we not legally obliged, conscripted, or paid to do it - the are willing migrants, they actually want to immigrate and live in Spain. What changed is that they were given the opportunity, "they did it because they could".
This whole concept of you having to accommodate people illegally entering, or in this case, storming your border is so alien to me.
Once a force of 60k men violently break into your country your duty is to start shooting, instead they had Spanish citizens have to bar their house doors and windows with couches and tremble in fear. Completely insane.
It is very important to note that you can not leave Ceuta without passport etc. It is not part of Schengen. This is a problem for Ceuta and Spain, and nothing more.
Think about that when you read what your politicians say about the incident. I have seen many lies and false statements the last few days.
The leaders should stand by Spain, not lie to their citizens about the situation to win votes.
They were aware, but there were rulings in spain before making it harder to push them back, so with missinformation they assumed once they made it in, they can stay. And then legally travel to europe.
Spain dropped the ball here, but I can not help but feel that this has been externally coordinated. That 50.000 people suddenly storm the borders is very very unusual - and also suspicious. That required external coordination really. It also required Morocco to be complicit here and the EU policy to just milk out taxpayer's money is not working, when countries such as Morocco sabotage things. Sanctions should be implemented against countries such as Morocco. Note that Finland also had sudden increases in migration; in that case it was easily traced back to Russia - that was easy due to proximity, despite Russia lying and denying this. In case of Spain, Russia is most likely not directly the one to have coordinated this, so one has to ask Morocco whether they have went bananas here. And Spain also has to stop acting naive - there is a reason the other EU countries are pissed off. Italy's response was best, even if populistic in nature - if Spain fails to retain EU policies then it should not be part of the EU.
Actually OP was talking about migrants crossing from Belarus.
The trains and other public transports to bring these people there were free that day for that specific destination.
https://xcancel.com/visegrad24/status/2083153767164170326
The Xitter claim was that:
The video shows a small number of people on a small number of truck beds calmly going about a roundabout.No visible attack, no proof that the people visible are "thousands of illegal migrants" nor of where they are or where they are headed.
It shows people on cars and police waiving them on like all the other traffic. So possible they especially were set up for the immigrants, but no idea how one can conclude that from this short clip.
So, I a remain curious to the base of the claim, but so far it rather seems rumors.
Regarding how such a flood happen, I don’t know, but someone should investigate it for sure.
Whoever was the main one to have coordinated this should be punished. In case of Finland it was Russia to have coordinated this. In case of Spain, the most logical actor was Morocco. There should be sanctions that are rigidly enforced here. It should also be treated as a military attack against the EU by Morocco, aside from sanctions.
It's an exaggeration to call this an attack - those people were not military, we not legally obliged, conscripted, or paid to do it - the are willing migrants, they actually want to immigrate and live in Spain. What changed is that they were given the opportunity, "they did it because they could".
In any case, they are all back now. It failed.
Once a force of 60k men violently break into your country your duty is to start shooting, instead they had Spanish citizens have to bar their house doors and windows with couches and tremble in fear. Completely insane.
It is very important to note that you can not leave Ceuta without passport etc. It is not part of Schengen. This is a problem for Ceuta and Spain, and nothing more.
Think about that when you read what your politicians say about the incident. I have seen many lies and false statements the last few days.
The leaders should stand by Spain, not lie to their citizens about the situation to win votes.