Entanglement Builds Space-Time. Now "Magic" Gives It Gravity

(quantamagazine.org)

67 points | by rbanffy 4 hours ago

12 comments

  • Terr_ 4 hours ago
    > a measure of quantumness known as “magic.”

    This naming-proposal couldn't possibly cause any problems down the line...

    > They had worked out a way of running software on a classical computer that would mimic a quantum task.

    When it comes to using a regular computer to mimic (read: fake) the execution of an exotic program/API for nonexistnet future hardware, I highly recommend the humorously titled talk: "Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming In Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Timespaces... Made Easy!" [0][1]

    [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTjPx4NIiM

    [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpInOI4o2LY

    • echelon 1 hour ago
      Is any of this experimentally testable in the real world?

      Would gravity or spacetime under these definitions behave differently and yield something we can observe?

      Or is this fancy math modeling that looks nice on paper, but that we won't be able to test until we become a Kardashev type III civilization?

      • MeteorMarc 34 minutes ago
        See the end of the article, after further research quantum gravity could be simulated on a quantum computer. The links between research on quantum computing and quantum gravity are fascinating anyway!
      • api 48 minutes ago
        As far as I know it’s the latter and that’s a big problem for physics. A lot of stuff like string theory, loop quantum gravity, etc. require energies that would take a particle accelerator the diameter of the solar system or something nuts like that.

        Without tests it’s just pretty math that can be coaxed into agreeing with reality but that proves nothing.

        Physicists try to indirectly test all the time via cosmological observations but that is extremely hard and limited to what you can infer and how well you can eliminate other explanations or sources of error.

      • stogot 48 minutes ago
        These wild ideas eventually arrive in textbooks as if they were tested, proven with none of the nuance or contradictory evidence
    • soco 3 hours ago
      > This naming-proposal couldn't possibly cause any problems down the line...

      Your worries are a bit late, there's already a huge amount of new age conspiracy bull about quantum healing with wave function collapse, microtubule alignment and biophotons - quality all-you-can-eat word salad buffet.

      • rockskon 2 hours ago
        Don't underestimate the capacity for the problem to get significantly worse.
      • CuriouslyC 2 hours ago
        Blame Roger Penrose for the microtubule bullshit. Ironically, he's the opposite of new age, dude won a Nobel prize.
  • lioeters 3 hours ago
    Charm, quark, colors, time crystals, holographs.. And now, magic. Don't worry Einstein, no spooky action at a distance here, it's just magical.

    > The more non-Clifford gates you need to produce a quantum state, the more magical that state is. The group found that the particles were highly magical. ..They showed that magic gave space its springiness. Magic, in other words, is connected to space’s ability to bend.

    At some point these physicists crossed over into a very specialized form of poetry, a game of language.

    • Tade0 42 minutes ago
      Time crystals, AFAIK, are actually descriptive: they're crystals in the sense that they produce regularities through occupying the lowest energy state - they just do that in time, not just space.
    • themgt 2 hours ago
      You can just call it second stabilizer Rényi entropy or non-stabilizerness if you find "magic" strange and prose is more your flavor than poetry.
    • dabiged 3 hours ago
      Don't forget snap, crackle and pop, and quantum teleportation.

      Physicists get a failing grade for naming things.

      • mfaulk 50 minutes ago
        Meanwhile, on HN: "Don't use yarn, use bun it's written in zig!"
      • yubblegum 2 hours ago
        You mean post quantum, theoretical physics. Up to 19th and early 20th, physicists somehow knew how to name things. It is possible that the nature of the beast itself has changed and it attracts a different kind of mindsets ...
        • tsimionescu 27 minutes ago
          Color charge and the strange and charm quarks are not post-quantum theoretical physics, are they?

          There's also other areas where a current of picking simple names instead of greek/latin terms was popular for a while at least - Shannon named the smallest unit of information a "bit" after all.

        • wvbdmp 54 minutes ago
          Maybe Greek and Latin vocabulary is just overextended at some point? I don’t really see the issue with Snap, Crackle and Pop. The potential confusion around Magic seems much greater, although when you consider the vastly more common opposite effect, where specific scientific terms become popular and quickly gain wholly different colloquial meanings, perhaps it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.

          Perhaps Magic is even so ridiculous that it’s immune to co-option by charlatans. After all, they choose sciency words to lend an air of credibility. OTOH the perceived ridiculousness could also change rather quickly. It’s just the nature of language use…

        • amelius 1 hour ago
          Maybe it is easier to get funding with catchy and/or mysterious names?
      • jerf 30 minutes ago
        Most of the crazy names come from before "quantum" was co-opted by a lot of BS. I don't blame those physicists for naming things that way because the coopting was inevitable. However, we are now decades into that process, and it is inconceivable that the authors choosing the name "magic" are unaware of it. Which means they are doing it with knowledge beforehand, and they should know this is a bad idea.

        It's not just a bad idea because of that BS, but even within the field it's just asking for trouble. We may all wish we were perfect Vulcans who have perfect mental separation between all concepts and emotions, but we aren't. It's going to have a small, but extremely persistent and long-term effect on the field if you seriously name a major part of it "magic". The emotional connotations simply can not help but smear into the putatively mathematical term. It's a high price to pay for what isn't really all that funny of a joke even the first time.

        And of course the BS will crank up even higher. People get hurt by that, but I don't know how much to lay at the foot of people who are all but taunting them by naming something "magic", because most of the hurt was going to come anyhow and what particular guise it is wearing is of minimal importance. Still, why even sign up to be in the line of fire of responsibility for that sort of thing?

    • lloeki 2 hours ago
      Is it measured in Thaum? (which, as everyone surely knows by now is the amount of magic needed to create one small white pigeon or three normal-sized billiard balls)
      • lioeters 27 minutes ago
        > The thaum is the basic unit of magic. The thaum is made up of so called resons, which are themselves made up of at least five flavours including up, down, sideways, sex appeal and peppermint.
    • etiam 3 hours ago
      I can sort of appreciate these shenanigans as short-lived common room humor, but I find it obnoxious to put it in the official terminology.

      It's bad enough all the corporations trying to steal perfectly active words for their brand names or products.

    • mr_mitm 3 hours ago
      Ghosts are also a thing in quantum field theory
      • setopt 2 hours ago
        And slavery, unfortunately. (Slave variables, slave bosons, etc.)
    • tuyiown 2 hours ago
      we had "god particle" too …
      • setopt 2 hours ago
        To be fair, that one came from an editor not a physicist; the physicist wanted to call their book «the goddamn particle», and it got censored/editorialized to «the god particle».
        • jfengel 1 hour ago
          I've heard that story and it doesn't ring true to me. It's not that aggravating to find. Try measuring a neutrino mass, which is still an open problem and looks as if it will remain so for a very long time.
        • phs318u 1 hour ago
          Is that really where the name came from? I remember being struck by how dumb that was and thought “a journalist must have come up with that”.
  • greenbit 1 hour ago
    Greek 'anameixi' loosely means a mixture or a blending. The special states could be called 'anameixic', the property could be called 'anameixicity'.

    Why am I trying to find a name for this? Otoh, why are so many physicists trying so hard to popularize their projects for the last 40 or 50 years? Oh .. I think I just answered my own question.

  • apothegm 2 hours ago
    That is an incredibly unfortunate term to use for the phenomenon.
  • hirako2000 3 hours ago
    In absolute, those are irrevocably pliable scientific facts.
  • sigmoid10 3 hours ago
    >In holographic theories, physicists may have traced the pliability of space-time to its quantum roots

    ...ah yes holography again. Not to say that all these insights from it are completely worthless, but unless we actually find a holographic dual of our universe instead of AdS spaces (which are the opposite of our universe if anything), this whole field is starting to feel more like a jobs program for mathematicians out of new ideas.

    • vbezhenar 2 hours ago
      That's how science always worked. The stupid people throw money at smart people and sometimes they pay back with good things. Any attempts to optimize that is futile, so the best we can do is to continue throwing money.
    • zmgsabst 1 hour ago
      Also, if all you have is a dual model, then it’s equally accurate to say entanglement arises from spacetime. Eg, this article describes entanglement giving rise to wormholes, but the model equally says wormholes give rise to entanglement.

      They’re promoting their preferred frame to ontological status when you can’t use a dual model to assert more than equivalence between frames.

    • dwroberts 2 hours ago
      > this whole field is starting to feel more like a jobs program for mathematicians out of new ideas.

      So sick of seeing phrases like this.

      Science is not business. It is not about producing results that you personally think are important. It is understanding the nature of the universe for the sake of it.

      • tsimionescu 21 minutes ago
        Science and math are not the same thing, though. The concern is that physics, a science, has been sliding too much into math research - specifically talking about the foundations of particle physics.

        That is, the concern is that instead of studying the real world, theoretical physicists are spending more and more time studying mathematical constructs and their properties.

      • echelon 1 hour ago
        There's a lot of ire for string theory. It's non-testable and wound up attracting lots of minds, funding, and resources. It hasn't seemingly led to any tangible results. Many scientists express anger about it and claim entire generations of progress were lost.
  • Aboutplants 2 hours ago
    Mathematicians shouldn’t be allowed to name anything, it’s beyond ridiculous
  • jacknews 1 hour ago
    IMHO, as an analogy, matter is not 'a bowling-ball on a mattress', but more like a scrunched-up section of table-cloth. Tiny knots or whirlpools of space-time/quantum fields, different particles are different topologies of knot, albeit the nature of space-time is unclear and it may well be a projection.
    • terminalbraid 1 hour ago
      An ant traveling at constant speed on a "scrunched up section of a table cloth" will still take the same amount of time following the same path to get from A to B. Any material analogy requires some kind of stretching or compression.
      • jacknews 1 hour ago
        I agree, the table-cloth is rubber.
  • applfanboysbgon 38 minutes ago
    >"magic"

    Please no.

  • phs318u 1 hour ago
    So, when it comes to the quantum physics of dark matter, would this property be dark magic?

    I’m so sorry. Couldn’t help myself.

  • greenbit 1 hour ago
    Calling something 'magic' is like an admission that you have no clue about what is going on. Seems to me, they do have some clue, namely that instead of codes with perfect isolation, there might be some advantage to studying ones that allow some blending. The resulting spaces may (or may not) lead to a better description of reality, but doing science means to peel back that mystery. So to go and promote this under the term 'magic' is disingenuous.
    • jfengel 1 hour ago
      It sounds as if it's in the same vein that gave us "strange" and "charm" and "color" (in the strong force sense). There was a whimsical time in particle naming. I'd say it ended when they rejected "truth" and "beauty" in favor of "top" and "bottom".

      We can do better than "magic".

  • tetrisgm 3 hours ago
    I gotta say every aspect of this headline reads like bullshit. Unfortunately
    • jfengel 1 hour ago
      Quanta usually has fairly good articles, but the headlines are often very bad.
    • yxhuvud 2 hours ago
      Not just the headline. Is it possible to take any scientist talking about something they term as magic seriously?
      • scotty79 2 hours ago
        > Is it possible to take any scientist talking about something they term as magic seriously?

        Obviously. Because the fact that they use this word for something modernly scientific means that its meaning is as far from the commonfolk meaning of the word as possible. Magic doesn't mean anything sensible yet. So it's basically free real estate for something physical, especially something very foundational.