Magic: The Gathering took me from N2 to Japanese fluency

(tokyodev.com)

53 points | by pwim 2 days ago

5 comments

  • ngruhn 46 minutes ago
    Cute premise but reads like a LinkedIn post (or maybe just AI).
    • nefarious_ends 0 minutes ago
      I love this new future where every post has comments about whether AI was involved or not!
    • sureMan6 40 minutes ago
      For sure an AI write up
      • simonjgreen 31 minutes ago
        Certainly AI editorialised. I wonder if this is because English isn’t their first language, and they are confidence compensating. I’ve worked with a lot of folks also from Philippines and the Tagalog/English mix leads to some confidence challenges sometimes.
  • vunderba 2 days ago
    Nice. Back when I lived in Taiwan, several of my students regularly played Magic: The Gathering (魔法風雲會). I’d been playing since 4th edition so I was already very familiar with it. Combined with the fact that I was studying traditional Chinese at the time, it turned out to be quite helpful.

    Incidental language exposure through gaming is an awesome way to learn.

  • nadermx 1 hour ago
    Can't imagine using MTG to learn a language. But it does seem intuitive in hindsight. Back when I played in the junior super series and nationals I could recall almost every card and what it did. So I can see how that leap would be tantermount. Kudos.
    • darren_ 1 hour ago
      > Can't imagine using MTG to learn a language.

      Note that he's starting from N2 Japanese, which is already a high level of Japanese proficiency (although it does not test writing/speaking at all, so it's very feasible to have N2 yet be terrible at conversation). He's not exactly learning hiragana from M:TG.

      The M:TG competitions are giving him a framework to practice that conversation, which believe it or not can be hard to come by in Tokyo without deliberate effort (see 'expat bubble'). The vocab/grammar on the cards is mostly incidental to all that. If he was playing online M:TG in Japanese he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the payoff.

      • simonjgreen 28 minutes ago
        Yup, super important point. None of the JLPT exams test output, only comprehension. It’s a really interesting gap!
    • ufocia 1 hour ago
      tantamount
      • nadermx 1 hour ago
        MTG skills don't translate to spelling. Thanks
  • rustyhancock 1 hour ago
    Contraversial opinion perhaps, I don't think the cards or the game itself took him to fluency.

    Probably the social contact.

    I mean N2 (JLPT levels run from N5 competent beginner to N1). Is really quite advanced.

    Being N2 is far further than many will ever make it into learning Japanese. To arrive at N2 is very impressive. I think typically N3 is minimum for work on Japan (outside of lower end jobs or things like TEFL).

    But JLPT is heavy on theory and light on practice.

    It makes sense to me that someone with very little practice but pretty advanced grammar, vocabulary (including Kanji and spelling). Would rapidly pick up fluency if they got a reason to speak.

    Not to discount the MtG effect but N2 is approximately CEFR B2 which is fluent. It's just that N2 doesn't assess fluency meaning you can get there with near zero confidence in conversational Japanese.

    • Jabbles 57 minutes ago
      > CEFR B2 which is fluent

      That certainly is controversial. I don't think many people would consider anyone who is fluent to only be B2.

      • rustyhancock 53 minutes ago
        Yes I know it's an odd claim.

        But I as far as I recall B2 is when you start seeing native people failing the exam without preparation with C2 becoming a legitimate challenge for native speakers.

        I believe the same threshold exists in N2 but because it's so Kanji focused without much assessment of fluency.

  • tripleee 1 hour ago
    [dead]