Of course these 2 compare about as standing on a random pedestrian's toe compares to massacring a small city. Both regrettable in absolute terms, but not remotely comparable.
(why not just the numbers? Because the ICE deaths were definitely not intentional. Nobody gave anybody the order to fire. But Iran's killing of protestors was 100% intentional by the regime. In other words, aside from 2 versus 40.000, all 40.000 Iranian deaths count as 1st degree murder, including the massacre on children Iran's islamists committed)
As an American citizen my concern is the American regime shooting American citizens.
I'm not Iranian and I'm not there, but I'm here where ICE can "unintentionally" shot me.
And bringing numbers to make them look bad and justify the war doesn't help, because Israel killed much more in Gaza with the help of US government and corporations.
So you are ok with 3000 (regime's number) to 30,000 (Iranian civilian numbers) murdered because 'Israel bad'? Can the two not both be bad?
With Irans support the Houthi killed much more in Yemen than Israel in Gaza. An estimated 223,000 dead children from that conflict. I guess Iran wins the 'most bad' based on numbers in your mind then?
By what measure were the ICE killings not intentional? Lifting a dude you just shot to point out the holes in him to your friends not intentional enough for ya?
You should research how many civilians the US army killed in airstrikes alone before coming to false conclusions.
Yes, the mullah regime are monsters, but no lesser or bigger monster than the good-oiled machine the whole US economy is running on that is killing men, women and children by US service members through all of the command chain for glory, medals, and profit.
In Iran, not every commander went out to kill protesters, just like the majority of us soldiers wouldn’t rape and kill a pregnant Afghan woman.
Still, both militaries are very much comparable in the modern day atrocities they did to civilians. The US, unlike Iran on a global scale tho for decades. Iran didn’t go to war in Vietnam, for example, or nuke Japanese children and women.
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist atrocities, and the subsequent launch of the War on Terror, Airwars has been seeking the answer to one important question – how many civilians have US strikes likely killed in the ‘Forever Wars’?
We found that the US has declared at least 91,340 strikes across seven major conflict zones.
Our research has concluded that at least 22,679, and potentially as many as 48,308 civilians, have been likely killed by US strikes.
Between 2013 and 2020, for example, the United States carried out seven separate attacks in Yemen—six drone strikes and one raid—that killed 36 members of the intermarried Al Ameri and Al Taisy families. A quarter of them were children between the ages of three months and 14 years old. The survivors have been waiting for years for an explanation as to why they were repeatedly targeted.
In 2018, Adel Al Manthari, a civil servant in the Yemeni government, and four of his cousins—all civilians—were traveling by truck when an American missile slammed into their vehicle. Three of the men were killed instantly. Another died days later in a local hospital. Al Manthari was critically injured. Complications resulting from his injuries nearly killed him in 2022. He beseeched the US government to dip into the millions of dollars appropriated by Congress to compensate victims of American attacks, but they ignored his pleas. His limbs and life were eventually saved by the kindness of strangers via a crowdsourced GoFundMe campaign.
The same year that Al Manthari was maimed in Yemen, a US drone strike in Somalia killed at least three, and possibly five, civilians, including 22-year-old Luul Dahir Mohamed and her 4-year-old daughter Mariam Shilow Muse. The next year, a US military investigation acknowledged that a woman and child were killed in that attack, but concluded that their identities might never be known.
A 2021 investigation by New York Times reporter Azmat Khan revealed that the American air war in Iraq and Syria was marked by flawed intelligence and inaccurate targeting, resulting in the deaths of many innocents. Out of 1,311 military reports analyzed by Khan, only one cited a “possible violation” of the rules of engagement. None included a finding of wrongdoing or suggested a need for disciplinary action, while fewer than a dozen condolence payments were made. The US-led coalition eventually admitted to killing 1,410 civilians during the war in Iraq and Syria. Airwars, however, puts the number at 2,024.
During the Vietnam War, providing “solatia” was a way for the military to offer reparations for civilian injuries or deaths caused by US operations without having to admit any guilt. In 1968, the going rate for an adult life was $33. Children merited just half that.
In 1973, a B-52 Stratofortress dropped 30 tons of bombs on the Cambodian town of Neak Luong, killing hundreds of civilians and wounding hundreds more. The next of kin of those killed, according to press reports, were promised about $400 each.
Just a few days ago, they allegedly bombed a girls’ school and killed a bunch of children, again, allegedly based on false and outdated intel, something that can no longer be ignored as accidents but a pattern. Instead of putting safeguards in place so the stuff from the 2021 investigation doesn’t happen again, they now use even fewer humans in the killing loop and outsource a part of the decision-making to a technology that is by design flawed and hallucinating up to 35% of the time.
A chance we shouldn’t take if the result of error is innocent children getting turned to ash.
It’s the first time ever that I see cardinals and the church calling the secretary of defense/war a heretic. Think about that.
"Munich Cardinal Reinhard Marx has strongly condemned the misuse of religious language to justify war and violence. In his Easter Sunday sermon, the archbishop specifically criticized remarks by U.S. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth (who refers to himself as a “war minister”).
It is a “shameless blasphemy,” Marx said in Munich, to pray that in the context of a war—such as in Iran—every bullet may hit its target. Religion, he stressed, must not be instrumentalized to legitimize violence."
We are now at a point in history where after the crusades,
collateral damage is justified as "gods will", the commander in chief just today openly suggested war crimes and ended with "praise be to Allah". Absolute insanity.
I could keep going all day but I guess at this point in this comment most people will either feel sick or rather want to go back to chanting USA USA and looking the other way.
We are in a really bad situation, of our own making no doubt.
We actually have no idea who's in charge of Iran (the stated ruler has yet to be seen and probably was severely injured in the same blast that killed Khamenei), but it's a pretty good bet that they are even more extreme and hard-line than before.
We've shown that Iran has complete and total control over the global economy via energy markets.
Every other country in the region wants Iran gone. Or to put it in more direct terms, the US kind of needs to "finish the job".
If we back down now, Iran wins, and that may actually be the worst possible situation to end up in.
To everyone who voted for Trump ... YOU VOTED FOR THIS. THANKS.
> To everyone who voted for Trump ... YOU VOTED FOR THIS. THANKS.
This conflict was obvious and inevitable (and called out by literally anyone with half a brain) and exactly what every single one of them voted for. Don’t ever let them pretend otherwise.
Trump would also have to navigate the loyalty the US state apparatus has to Israel. Iran has made it clear that the ceasefire option is off the table this time round. So I just don’t see the US extricating itself from this quagmire barring some extreme political upheaval.
But who knows, if you take Trump’s incompetence, plus the possibility of global economic collapse, plus the possibility of global food shortages, we just might see it.
* US out of middle east entirely (meaning removing the army bases protecting the gulf countries)
* Cessation of hostilities, including their proxy forces
* Security guarantees, including for their proxy forces (translation: letting Iran fully take over Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq and probably soon Saudi Arabia)
* Payment of war reparations to the IRGC
* Taxing the strait of Hormuz
They're down to 1 demand only: cessation of hostilities, only against Iran itself. Well, let's not forget who we're talking to. The only thing Iran's "revolutionaries", but in reality a dictator with a bunch of mansions in London, wants is guarantees for his own safety.
Now it's war and no doubt things can go very badly very quickly. But, so far, seems to be going pretty damn well for the US if we're being honest.
Do you work in arms industry? Because unless you are the arms industry, wasting almost 1 billion dollars per day fighting a war that has nothing to do with us does not seem like "going pretty damn well"
Check their comment history. This account is either trolling or just spouting talking points, it is getting pretty tiring. They can't even be bothered to properly cut-and-paste, see the missing 'I' at the beginning of the comment above.
I wonder what's stranger. That they think Trump will care about OpenAI's datacenter in Abu Dhabi, or that we're getting this news from tomshardware.com
He may care in the end, because TACO. Looks like this is a pattern of modern war where both sides are testing the escalation levels by attacking the infrastructure. It‘s like MAD, but going up in smaller increments rather than hitting with everything after one or two limited strikes like nuclear. Basically, you hit my power plant, I‘ll hit yours. It‘s the same path Ukraine went on: they initially showed restraint in responses, but now they are matching Russian pressure by choosing the same civilian targets.
It's not a terrible target. Long-term it puts stress on US/UAE cooperation, and short-term it mirrors the destabilization inside Iran with escalation outside it.
From the armchair perspective, these sorts of strikes are exactly what I'd imagine that China is advocating for behind closed doors. A few well-placed drone strikes can cause more economic damage than any SAM shootdown or embassy attack could, tactically accelerating the war and strategically entrenching Chinese technology.
It started as "Weapons of Mass Distraction" from Epstein.
Completely overplayed. Epstein (and fiends) will be the cause of more mass slaughter, starting with a school full of little girls. Of course, little girls.
The world is being run by a gang of narcissistic, sociopathic fiends thanks to all the idiots who fell for their racist, misogynist, nationalist, religious fanaticism.
Buddhist leader Daisaku Ikeda:
To end the human institution of war, to relegate it to history with such barbarous practices as slavery―at one time also considered a natural, inevitable, “part of human nature”―we must establish respect for the inviolable dignity of human life as the core value of our age.
Every war, when viewed from the undistorted perspective of life’s sanctity, is a “civil war” waged by humanity against itself.
But I must be missing something.
Idk what you are missing... maybe that people don't want to be killed and try to implement strategies to not get killed?
(why not just the numbers? Because the ICE deaths were definitely not intentional. Nobody gave anybody the order to fire. But Iran's killing of protestors was 100% intentional by the regime. In other words, aside from 2 versus 40.000, all 40.000 Iranian deaths count as 1st degree murder, including the massacre on children Iran's islamists committed)
I'm not Iranian and I'm not there, but I'm here where ICE can "unintentionally" shot me.
And bringing numbers to make them look bad and justify the war doesn't help, because Israel killed much more in Gaza with the help of US government and corporations.
Let's compare both them?
With Irans support the Houthi killed much more in Yemen than Israel in Gaza. An estimated 223,000 dead children from that conflict. I guess Iran wins the 'most bad' based on numbers in your mind then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93...
You should research how many civilians the US army killed in airstrikes alone before coming to false conclusions.
Yes, the mullah regime are monsters, but no lesser or bigger monster than the good-oiled machine the whole US economy is running on that is killing men, women and children by US service members through all of the command chain for glory, medals, and profit.
In Iran, not every commander went out to kill protesters, just like the majority of us soldiers wouldn’t rape and kill a pregnant Afghan woman.
Still, both militaries are very much comparable in the modern day atrocities they did to civilians. The US, unlike Iran on a global scale tho for decades. Iran didn’t go to war in Vietnam, for example, or nuke Japanese children and women.
A few confirmed and well researched examples.
https://archive.ph/2apS4
Ahead of the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist atrocities, and the subsequent launch of the War on Terror, Airwars has been seeking the answer to one important question – how many civilians have US strikes likely killed in the ‘Forever Wars’?
We found that the US has declared at least 91,340 strikes across seven major conflict zones.
Our research has concluded that at least 22,679, and potentially as many as 48,308 civilians, have been likely killed by US strikes.
Between 2013 and 2020, for example, the United States carried out seven separate attacks in Yemen—six drone strikes and one raid—that killed 36 members of the intermarried Al Ameri and Al Taisy families. A quarter of them were children between the ages of three months and 14 years old. The survivors have been waiting for years for an explanation as to why they were repeatedly targeted.
In 2018, Adel Al Manthari, a civil servant in the Yemeni government, and four of his cousins—all civilians—were traveling by truck when an American missile slammed into their vehicle. Three of the men were killed instantly. Another died days later in a local hospital. Al Manthari was critically injured. Complications resulting from his injuries nearly killed him in 2022. He beseeched the US government to dip into the millions of dollars appropriated by Congress to compensate victims of American attacks, but they ignored his pleas. His limbs and life were eventually saved by the kindness of strangers via a crowdsourced GoFundMe campaign.
The same year that Al Manthari was maimed in Yemen, a US drone strike in Somalia killed at least three, and possibly five, civilians, including 22-year-old Luul Dahir Mohamed and her 4-year-old daughter Mariam Shilow Muse. The next year, a US military investigation acknowledged that a woman and child were killed in that attack, but concluded that their identities might never be known.
A 2021 investigation by New York Times reporter Azmat Khan revealed that the American air war in Iraq and Syria was marked by flawed intelligence and inaccurate targeting, resulting in the deaths of many innocents. Out of 1,311 military reports analyzed by Khan, only one cited a “possible violation” of the rules of engagement. None included a finding of wrongdoing or suggested a need for disciplinary action, while fewer than a dozen condolence payments were made. The US-led coalition eventually admitted to killing 1,410 civilians during the war in Iraq and Syria. Airwars, however, puts the number at 2,024.
https://archive.ph/KZBAy
During the Vietnam War, providing “solatia” was a way for the military to offer reparations for civilian injuries or deaths caused by US operations without having to admit any guilt. In 1968, the going rate for an adult life was $33. Children merited just half that.
In 1973, a B-52 Stratofortress dropped 30 tons of bombs on the Cambodian town of Neak Luong, killing hundreds of civilians and wounding hundreds more. The next of kin of those killed, according to press reports, were promised about $400 each.
Just a few days ago, they allegedly bombed a girls’ school and killed a bunch of children, again, allegedly based on false and outdated intel, something that can no longer be ignored as accidents but a pattern. Instead of putting safeguards in place so the stuff from the 2021 investigation doesn’t happen again, they now use even fewer humans in the killing loop and outsource a part of the decision-making to a technology that is by design flawed and hallucinating up to 35% of the time.
A chance we shouldn’t take if the result of error is innocent children getting turned to ash.
It’s the first time ever that I see cardinals and the church calling the secretary of defense/war a heretic. Think about that.
"Munich Cardinal Reinhard Marx has strongly condemned the misuse of religious language to justify war and violence. In his Easter Sunday sermon, the archbishop specifically criticized remarks by U.S. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth (who refers to himself as a “war minister”). It is a “shameless blasphemy,” Marx said in Munich, to pray that in the context of a war—such as in Iran—every bullet may hit its target. Religion, he stressed, must not be instrumentalized to legitimize violence."
We are now at a point in history where after the crusades, collateral damage is justified as "gods will", the commander in chief just today openly suggested war crimes and ended with "praise be to Allah". Absolute insanity.
I could keep going all day but I guess at this point in this comment most people will either feel sick or rather want to go back to chanting USA USA and looking the other way.
I would reconsider your position if I were you.
"Happy New Year to every Iranian in the streets. Also to every Mossad agent walking beside them..." - Mike Pompeo
We actually have no idea who's in charge of Iran (the stated ruler has yet to be seen and probably was severely injured in the same blast that killed Khamenei), but it's a pretty good bet that they are even more extreme and hard-line than before.
We've shown that Iran has complete and total control over the global economy via energy markets.
Every other country in the region wants Iran gone. Or to put it in more direct terms, the US kind of needs to "finish the job".
If we back down now, Iran wins, and that may actually be the worst possible situation to end up in.
To everyone who voted for Trump ... YOU VOTED FOR THIS. THANKS.
This conflict was obvious and inevitable (and called out by literally anyone with half a brain) and exactly what every single one of them voted for. Don’t ever let them pretend otherwise.
But who knows, if you take Trump’s incompetence, plus the possibility of global economic collapse, plus the possibility of global food shortages, we just might see it.
The only question is which country he's hurting more, the US or Iran.
* US out of middle east entirely (meaning removing the army bases protecting the gulf countries)
* Cessation of hostilities, including their proxy forces
* Security guarantees, including for their proxy forces (translation: letting Iran fully take over Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq and probably soon Saudi Arabia)
* Payment of war reparations to the IRGC
* Taxing the strait of Hormuz
They're down to 1 demand only: cessation of hostilities, only against Iran itself. Well, let's not forget who we're talking to. The only thing Iran's "revolutionaries", but in reality a dictator with a bunch of mansions in London, wants is guarantees for his own safety.
Now it's war and no doubt things can go very badly very quickly. But, so far, seems to be going pretty damn well for the US if we're being honest.
At the very least dangle a shiny gold ball tickling trophy in his eyeline to briefly gain attention.
not sure what the point of this propaganda is?
ukraine doesn't shoot rockets at appartments.
hitting (dual use) energy infrastructure is a completely different level then targeting civilian homes.
From the armchair perspective, these sorts of strikes are exactly what I'd imagine that China is advocating for behind closed doors. A few well-placed drone strikes can cause more economic damage than any SAM shootdown or embassy attack could, tactically accelerating the war and strategically entrenching Chinese technology.
Completely overplayed. Epstein (and fiends) will be the cause of more mass slaughter, starting with a school full of little girls. Of course, little girls.
The world is being run by a gang of narcissistic, sociopathic fiends thanks to all the idiots who fell for their racist, misogynist, nationalist, religious fanaticism.
Buddhist leader Daisaku Ikeda:
To end the human institution of war, to relegate it to history with such barbarous practices as slavery―at one time also considered a natural, inevitable, “part of human nature”―we must establish respect for the inviolable dignity of human life as the core value of our age.
Every war, when viewed from the undistorted perspective of life’s sanctity, is a “civil war” waged by humanity against itself.