I did most of this route by bus in the late 2000s, mostly semi-cama style where available. Was entirely manageable mostly, apart from feeling weird as the altitude kicked up heading to Cusco, and the horrendous surface of the la paz to uyuni road. For an interminable stretch in the middle of the night in felt like we were driving over an endless washboard.
The 2008 US presidential election was on, we hadn't heard the result, the park ranger in an unbelievably remote hut at uyuni informed us that "el Moreno" had won
Thanks for reminding me how beautiful Rio ("Hio") is! I went to Brazil twice in the late 2000s. Brings back some fun memories:
- Most of the locals on the beach will start clapping when the sun begins to set. Ipanema is a beautiful beach/area.
- Brazilians are curious and happy to chat with foreigners. I particularly enjoyed how slowly everyone walked, not in a rush to get to anyplace.
- If you're staying in hostels, it's really easy to fall into the trap of hanging around other foreigners who pretty much all speak English fluently (which is fun, but isn't the main purpose of traveling IMO). I learned a little Portuguese before traveling which helped break out of that. I also couch surfed (stayed in strangers homes), which was fun.
- I found the cuisine to be light, though I was on a budget. Pretty sure I lost weight and had to eat more frequently. I miss Acia bowls.
- Dont drink unfiltered tap water, and make sure the bottled water seals aren't broken. I got sick a couple times regardless.
- Carnaval and soccer (football) matches are wild. Tons of energetic people.
- I was never mugged, but met a lot of people who were, or knew someone who was (locals and foreigners). Maybe things have changed. Traveling alone at night is not a good idea.
A few years ago in Recife I was walking with Brazilian friends down the street. A football match was on and we were moving between two public showings. The street was wide, four lanes, bright in the sunshine, and utterly empty. Every single person in the city was watching football.
I pulled out my phone to check where we were on the map.
Each one of my friends immediately looked round urgently and when I put it away, one asked what I was doing. We could be mugged!
--
For all the stories like that, Brazil is one of the most wonderful countries I've been to, with amazing people. I have great friends there still today. There does seem to be a major public danger element -- I was told far worse stories. But for all of that, and taking precautions, it was a wonderful place to visit. In one way I feel bad sharing my response to your story, because it perpetuates that, but also it is a true aspect of the country. But: it is an extraordinary place, and a country I deeply wish would be more successful because the people deserve it.
And somewhat easy to find in the SF Bay Area, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and I would guess New York, but certainly far more expensive than in South America.
Not that I know of. However, the “slurpie” style with fruit/granola from Rio that went out to the world, is good but the smooth version from the North with tapioca is better. Almost like a light pudding.
None of the pictures show people with coats on. My experience riding buses in South America was that operators run the AC on "freezing" for some reason. I never figured out why, but some said it was a competition for luxury where colder is seen as more luxurious, even though it's significantly below room temp. I didn't quite buy that explanation but I never heard a better one either.
I’ve only taken two buses in Brazil (Goiânia to Pirenópolis and back), and can definitely report that this was not the case there. It was incredibly hot and dry there until you hit the mountains, and the AC barely worked. Granted, I think this was one of the crappier bus lines, and they had a monopoly on this particular route.
Back in 2012 after 8 months across Asia (through Turkey, Iran, India, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Hong King) we took a flight to Buenos Aires (well, via SF for a weekend) then went entirely overland:
- Buenos Aires
- Puerto Madryn
- Ushuaia
- El Calafate
- El Chalten
- Bariloche
- El Bolson
- Mendoza
- Salta
- El Cafayate
- Into Bolivia…
- La Quiaca
- Tupiza
- Salar de Uniyi
- Sucre
- La Paz
- Copabanca
- Isla Del Sol
- Into Peru!
- Puno
- Cusco
- Aguas Calientes
- Arequipa
- Tacna
- Into Chile!
- San Pedro de Atacama
- Into Argentina
- Salta
- Puerto Iguazú
- Into Brazil
- Foz do Iguaçu
- Rio de Janeiro
- Ihla Grande
- Paraty
- San Paulo
- Home (via Amsterdam)!
I’m glad we did it when we were younger - golden years.
The article omits the most important detail in the bus summary. Is it cama?
Cama is Spanish for bed. A cama bus has seats that fully recline to form a flat bed. They are awesome. Semi-cama is a reclining chair. Not flat, but comfortable and you can easily sleep. And then you get regular buses, which are no fun on the long journeys.
not my experience with sleeper buses in Asia, in Vietnam they have these semi reclining "seats"[1] which can't be completely flat plus they are too short for European, so actually it's more uncomfortable experience than regular seat would be
OTOH I had pretty good experiences with some Indian sleeper buses, if new/good condition, you can even choose single berth with solid sliding aisle wall making it your own small private cabin [2], though it seems aisle curtains are more popular, bed is completely flat, you can even pull open pretty big side window to observe country, though of course it's not long enouigh berth for 2m European, for obvious reasons double berth shared with strangers is not very good experience but sometimes there is no other option
so I wonder how actually look these cama buses you specifically mentioned
Now I've got small children, we fly instead of taking the long bus, train or boat journey. But the long bus, train and boat journeys and the places we experienced along the way are half of what my wife and I talk about when we reminisce about our travels. In the UK at least we call it "going travelling", which to me acknowledges that the actual travelling is important, not just destination hopping.
I’m not convinced you read the post. I believe the author makes quite explicit their goal was to actually visit these cities, noting this is far from the most efficient bus route. Their itinerary also shows long stays in several spots.
You're making the mistake of thinking that the place you're headed is your destination. When you look back (I hope) you recall fondly your younger days adventures where you had 2 bucks and an open road. The best adventures happen when we don't expect them because we're on the way to the 'important' thing.
We very rarely correctly identify in advance what the important thing is.
I disagree that I'm making that mistake - I'm saying that 5 days in some foreign city can be filled with adventure just like 5 days on a bus through unknown areas can be.
I’ve watched a video about a guy who did the same route, and a lot of passengers said they were taking the bus back home because they were afraid of flying.
when traveling and especially backpacking, the road and the experiences and people you meet along is the goal, not tackling a checklist of stuff internet/llms has given you as must-see.
Or it could just be an observation. You can look at how arduaous that trip is and be amazed that now-a-days, if you just want to get from point A to point B, you can do it in few hours of comfort on a plane. That doesn't take anything away from that you might want to take the long path. But seeing the long path, you can certainly appreciate how awesome it is that you don't have to take the long path when you don't need/want to .
I'm certainly glad that went I decide to go from California to Hawaii it takes 5 hours and not 5 days like it did 100 years ago. Or Japan, 14-15 days and now 10-11 hours. Sure, it might be interesting to do it once the long way, but having someone show me the long way makes me appreciate that I don't have to do that.
I’d always fancied myself a decent driver. Riding in buses across parts of Peru recalibrated my standards. I couldn’t believed what they could do with those clapped out tour buses, some *truly* skilled folks at the wheel.
i remember seeing sun beating down on a truck in front of us with 80 or so residential sized gas tanks just banging on each other for the entire way from arequipa to lima, fun times. we did cuzco to puno then loop back to lima. there was news of coach fallen off the road on the bit from puno to arequipa, but then I was young and eager to explore so just jumped on anyway with a friend, good times for sure.
The contrast between planning anxiety ("is this insane?") and the reality of just figuring it out at each border crossing is something I'd only learn by doing tbh
I did the exact opposite of this in 2011 and it was the easily the most memorable 3 months of my life. Takes some planning (mostly making sure visa dates line up) but it is an incredible experience.
Still exists, without a book to talk about it. Travel is cheap and my lesson is that every sleeping condition is acceptable, provided it’s temporary. A friend came to see me in Sydney, from France, using hitchhiking. He loved Kazhakstan and central Asia, hated Vietnam (which I loved), and took a flight from Singapore to Pearth. Western countries are the most boring, apparently.
There are some mediocre routes and some interesting routes.
I think a key tidbit not mentioned by the article, is to recommend for US and Europeans travelers the experience of ecosystem change by going from coastal (sea level), to paramo , to high Andes , and then back down to (dense) tropical jungle.
That ecosystem journey does not exist in North America, and its rare in the EU, except for maybe Switzerland (where you will not experience tropical jungle anyway).
Yet, the journey from coast to highland down to jungle, is available on all highways criscrossing the Andes!
You can do a similar journey in the US and Canada from sea level through temperate rainforest to alpine tundra on the Pacific coast. It's not quite the same as the Andes, but it's similar because of the structural similarities in how the Pacific rim formed.
You can experience all of those ecosystems - and more - just in Columbia if you choose to.
We did a lot of bussing around there couple years ago - none of them or as nice as these motor coaches! (We were generally not taking the longer routes though.)
The longest single bus ride I did was about 24 hours from Iguazu (Argentine side) up to Rio. It was at the end of a 2 month trip through Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Brazil. I had intended to break it up with a couple of days in Sao Paulo, but I ended up spending way longer than expected in Buenos Aires because I loved it so much.
It was semi cama and we were told there would be a meal served as part of the ticket, only to be told on board that the meal wasn't available for whatever reason. After much complaining (not just me but all of the passengers) we eventually got them to let us stop for half an hour at a service station in the middle of nowhere to get some food.
It was over 13 years ago now, but I still have so many great memories of that trip.
I did SP to Iguaçu—worst ever ride (21 hours) because it was a regular bus, no cama, don’t remember why. May have been cheated.
I do remember that date however, we arrived the morning of 9/11. Yes, that one. Checked into hostel bleary-eyed with neck-ache. “Norte Americano?” “Si,” clerk points to TV above, a building in NYC is on fire, looks like a plane crash. I think, that’s really weird but can’t understand the discussion of what happened. I go straight to bed for several hours.
Later get up in the late afternoon for a walk around the falls from a distance. It’s beautiful. Come back about 6pm to catch Dubya making his speech with the other hostel guests in the living room. They also replay the video of the day over and over. The dread of what’s to come lingers in the air.
Indeed. You might like this site we wrote that approaches from the technology angle. Didn’t write on a phone so may be a bit more coherent. ;-) https://trustworthy.technology/
That's fantastic stuff. I feel we're in some kind of 'inversion of control' situation here, from being the (relatively inept) masters of our tech we are slowly turned into peripherals.
Textual change suggestion:
"Earlier European censuses had helpfully laid out the details necessary to systematically and efficiently round up undesirables on a scale yet unseen or imagined."
=>
"Earlier European censuses had helpfully laid out the details necessary to systematically and efficiently round up those that were labeled undesirables on a scale yet unseen or imagined."
Also, I think malicious compliance needs to be addressed somehow, the tech industry has been weaponizing this.
Did something similar but not nearly as long across a good part of Mexico a few years ago. It was wonderful though one cannot be in a hurry. I will have to consider your route for a future pilgrimage. Thank you for sharing it!
I remember Buenos Aires to Porto Alegre (via Foz do Iguaçu) by bus. I guess that's about 1/4 or 1/3 as far, with somewhat less dramatic landscapes. Extremely comfortable except for the violent action movies shown on an overhead TV with sound, even for part of the night.
Edit: but ultimately probably a very different experience because it's so much less mountainous!
Latin American noise tolerance is something else, the local passengers probably found falling asleep to the sound of gunfire and shouting from the film soothing
That’s basically just a bus up the coast of Uruguay and a bit of Rio Grande do Sul? I did the same route in the opposite direction, via Tacuarembo, mostly on horseback. Extremely uncomfortable, but an interesting week nonetheless.
You might be envisioning a more direct route that doesn't include the Foz do Iguaçu part (maybe crossing the border in Uruguaiana or something). I bet that exists as a commercial bus route option too, but the Foz do Iguaçu stopover is all the way up at the triple border of Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay. So the Brazilian border-skirting for this trip includes all of Rio Grande do Sul, all of Santa Catarina, and a bit of Parana, then back down again on the Brazilian side after crossing the border.
Edit: Yes, it looks like you could totally do that (Buenos Aires to Uruguaiana, then Uruguaiana to Porto Alegre) and save many hours of travel, or even cut more directly through central Uruguay and save even more time. We took the longer option because we wanted to visit Iguaçu Falls and the Itaipu dam, which were both spectacular.
Wow, what an epic looking trip! My brain began planning this out with my wife and I getting off the bus at a cool looking city and staying a few days for site seeing.
This trip goes through remarkable places, I was lucky to experience quite a few without ever doing such trip in that location.
Uyuni salt plain - magical experience, better than any photos. Climbing on old rusty train cut into chunks, jumping between wagons. Or sleeping in salt-cubes-built iglu. Or hiking to 5200m high volcano Tunupa just next to salt plains.
Sucre - nice colonial feel.
Potosi - evils of colonialism in plain sight. Hard place to swallow. Also possible to go to one of hundreds mines in the famous hill where all the silver mines are. There can be some nasty sillica in the air, beware. But mines look like you would expect in 3rd world - basic, dangerous, and a stick of dynamite is never too far. If you want to see effects of high altitude on fertility, local church is a (traumatic) place to visit.
La Paz - proper high altitude capital, don't be surprised to feel dizzy when stepping out of plane at 4100m altitude.
Copacabana - I presume the one on Titicaca - recommending visiting Isola del Sol, talking to locals. Never had a frozen beer in pre-frozen mug, when outside was -10C and even inside barely 0C, even the foam froze so had to be chewed.
One thing seemingly skipped since this was more just a regular travel path - you can ride down on a rented bike Camino de la Muerte near La Paz - or Yungas death road. In 1 day, you bike from 4700m high frozen planes down to tropical jungle, on shabby muddy roads cut to properly vertical slopes, with waterfall falling down your neck. Don't skip this, even if you are not a seasoned biker. One of those memories for rest of the days.
Buses and related are great in SA. I'm frankly surprised that it took 11 separate buses to this
If you are a comfortable traveler and know a bit of spanish, find the combis/collectivos wherever you are, it is far and away the best way to do day trip travel from many cities
80 Days is a really wonderful literary game that captures the joy and adventure of travel (quite a nice escape during the pandemic). There's tons of replayability with different routes and subplots to discover.
The 2008 US presidential election was on, we hadn't heard the result, the park ranger in an unbelievably remote hut at uyuni informed us that "el Moreno" had won
- Most of the locals on the beach will start clapping when the sun begins to set. Ipanema is a beautiful beach/area.
- Brazilians are curious and happy to chat with foreigners. I particularly enjoyed how slowly everyone walked, not in a rush to get to anyplace.
- If you're staying in hostels, it's really easy to fall into the trap of hanging around other foreigners who pretty much all speak English fluently (which is fun, but isn't the main purpose of traveling IMO). I learned a little Portuguese before traveling which helped break out of that. I also couch surfed (stayed in strangers homes), which was fun.
- I found the cuisine to be light, though I was on a budget. Pretty sure I lost weight and had to eat more frequently. I miss Acia bowls.
- Dont drink unfiltered tap water, and make sure the bottled water seals aren't broken. I got sick a couple times regardless.
- Carnaval and soccer (football) matches are wild. Tons of energetic people.
- I was never mugged, but met a lot of people who were, or knew someone who was (locals and foreigners). Maybe things have changed. Traveling alone at night is not a good idea.
I pulled out my phone to check where we were on the map.
Each one of my friends immediately looked round urgently and when I put it away, one asked what I was doing. We could be mugged!
--
For all the stories like that, Brazil is one of the most wonderful countries I've been to, with amazing people. I have great friends there still today. There does seem to be a major public danger element -- I was told far worse stories. But for all of that, and taking precautions, it was a wonderful place to visit. In one way I feel bad sharing my response to your story, because it perpetuates that, but also it is a true aspect of the country. But: it is an extraordinary place, and a country I deeply wish would be more successful because the people deserve it.
Somehow the cedilla was lost.
Back in 2012 after 8 months across Asia (through Turkey, Iran, India, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Hong King) we took a flight to Buenos Aires (well, via SF for a weekend) then went entirely overland: - Buenos Aires - Puerto Madryn - Ushuaia - El Calafate - El Chalten - Bariloche - El Bolson - Mendoza - Salta - El Cafayate - Into Bolivia… - La Quiaca - Tupiza - Salar de Uniyi - Sucre - La Paz - Copabanca - Isla Del Sol - Into Peru! - Puno - Cusco - Aguas Calientes - Arequipa - Tacna - Into Chile! - San Pedro de Atacama - Into Argentina - Salta - Puerto Iguazú - Into Brazil - Foz do Iguaçu - Rio de Janeiro - Ihla Grande - Paraty - San Paulo - Home (via Amsterdam)!
I’m glad we did it when we were younger - golden years.
Cama is Spanish for bed. A cama bus has seats that fully recline to form a flat bed. They are awesome. Semi-cama is a reclining chair. Not flat, but comfortable and you can easily sleep. And then you get regular buses, which are no fun on the long journeys.
"Leito" sounds more premium than "cama", despite being both valid words for "bed"
OTOH I had pretty good experiences with some Indian sleeper buses, if new/good condition, you can even choose single berth with solid sliding aisle wall making it your own small private cabin [2], though it seems aisle curtains are more popular, bed is completely flat, you can even pull open pretty big side window to observe country, though of course it's not long enouigh berth for 2m European, for obvious reasons double berth shared with strangers is not very good experience but sometimes there is no other option
so I wonder how actually look these cama buses you specifically mentioned
[1] https://warmcheaptrips.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Sleepe...
[2] https://static.punemirror.com/full/276e634e-e89e-4231-b487-2...
I assume the author just had nothing better to do which is fine, but great to have the other option.
We very rarely correctly identify in advance what the important thing is.
> Really drives home the blessing of air travel
It might lead one to surmise that you may have never encountered this before. Just sayin
I'm certainly glad that went I decide to go from California to Hawaii it takes 5 hours and not 5 days like it did 100 years ago. Or Japan, 14-15 days and now 10-11 hours. Sure, it might be interesting to do it once the long way, but having someone show me the long way makes me appreciate that I don't have to do that.
YouTuber Noel Philips also covered it, if you want to see it in that form.
I spent a huge part of my teens and early twenties dreaming of doing the same. These days the mere thought gives me a back ache.
I think a key tidbit not mentioned by the article, is to recommend for US and Europeans travelers the experience of ecosystem change by going from coastal (sea level), to paramo , to high Andes , and then back down to (dense) tropical jungle.
That ecosystem journey does not exist in North America, and its rare in the EU, except for maybe Switzerland (where you will not experience tropical jungle anyway).
Yet, the journey from coast to highland down to jungle, is available on all highways criscrossing the Andes!
We did a lot of bussing around there couple years ago - none of them or as nice as these motor coaches! (We were generally not taking the longer routes though.)
It was semi cama and we were told there would be a meal served as part of the ticket, only to be told on board that the meal wasn't available for whatever reason. After much complaining (not just me but all of the passengers) we eventually got them to let us stop for half an hour at a service station in the middle of nowhere to get some food.
It was over 13 years ago now, but I still have so many great memories of that trip.
I do remember that date however, we arrived the morning of 9/11. Yes, that one. Checked into hostel bleary-eyed with neck-ache. “Norte Americano?” “Si,” clerk points to TV above, a building in NYC is on fire, looks like a plane crash. I think, that’s really weird but can’t understand the discussion of what happened. I go straight to bed for several hours.
Later get up in the late afternoon for a walk around the falls from a distance. It’s beautiful. Come back about 6pm to catch Dubya making his speech with the other hostel guests in the living room. They also replay the video of the day over and over. The dread of what’s to come lingers in the air.
Textual change suggestion:
"Earlier European censuses had helpfully laid out the details necessary to systematically and efficiently round up undesirables on a scale yet unseen or imagined."
=>
"Earlier European censuses had helpfully laid out the details necessary to systematically and efficiently round up those that were labeled undesirables on a scale yet unseen or imagined."
Also, I think malicious compliance needs to be addressed somehow, the tech industry has been weaponizing this.
Edit: but ultimately probably a very different experience because it's so much less mountainous!
Edit: Yes, it looks like you could totally do that (Buenos Aires to Uruguaiana, then Uruguaiana to Porto Alegre) and save many hours of travel, or even cut more directly through central Uruguay and save even more time. We took the longer option because we wanted to visit Iguaçu Falls and the Itaipu dam, which were both spectacular.
Uyuni salt plain - magical experience, better than any photos. Climbing on old rusty train cut into chunks, jumping between wagons. Or sleeping in salt-cubes-built iglu. Or hiking to 5200m high volcano Tunupa just next to salt plains.
Sucre - nice colonial feel.
Potosi - evils of colonialism in plain sight. Hard place to swallow. Also possible to go to one of hundreds mines in the famous hill where all the silver mines are. There can be some nasty sillica in the air, beware. But mines look like you would expect in 3rd world - basic, dangerous, and a stick of dynamite is never too far. If you want to see effects of high altitude on fertility, local church is a (traumatic) place to visit.
La Paz - proper high altitude capital, don't be surprised to feel dizzy when stepping out of plane at 4100m altitude.
Copacabana - I presume the one on Titicaca - recommending visiting Isola del Sol, talking to locals. Never had a frozen beer in pre-frozen mug, when outside was -10C and even inside barely 0C, even the foam froze so had to be chewed.
One thing seemingly skipped since this was more just a regular travel path - you can ride down on a rented bike Camino de la Muerte near La Paz - or Yungas death road. In 1 day, you bike from 4700m high frozen planes down to tropical jungle, on shabby muddy roads cut to properly vertical slopes, with waterfall falling down your neck. Don't skip this, even if you are not a seasoned biker. One of those memories for rest of the days.
If you are a comfortable traveler and know a bit of spanish, find the combis/collectivos wherever you are, it is far and away the best way to do day trip travel from many cities