> note: this is still a veeery big wip, as there are many features that I have planned to added; you can see this on the bottom of this readme.
I spent a decade as a lead on an industry-leading commercial sync product. Once you start working on details, tools like this can get very time consuming.
(They're also very fun to work on.)
The devil is all the corner cases, and there are a LOT of corner cases in sync; especially if you handle renames as renames. (IE, instead of treating a rename as a delete and recreate.)
My $0.02: Decide if this is a one-off project, hobby, or something you want to turn full time. Remember that what might seem like a bug, or a weekend project, could turn into a long coding journey. It's important to understand your commitment going in, because you don't want to "bite off more than you can chew."
You can find my website in my profile (and thus email) if you want to contact me and ask anything.
Be proud you did a thing. Not everything has to optimize profits, userbase, or some other metrics. You developed something for yourself, and saw it through until it worked, and no one can take that away from you.
It's also much more stimulating to build something than ask like a pedant "why this exists when Syncthing?", so, I guess the joke's on them.
As a syncthing user who has also thought about this problem, syncthing is good but reading around it seems like running it on a phone is a pain and then simply pasting from share or clipboard is yet another pain to implement. So there is possibly some useful stuff TODO in bridging all that friction. I haven't literally tried but have read about it all once and decided not to. Cool space of problems.
saw this post last night and tbh thought it a bit weird since initially it was described by author as “alternative to emailing yourself” - like, really? after 20 years of dropbox? the countless competitors it spawned, including OSS as well as by all major email providers???
came back curious to see if the discussion took a different direction from besides sarcasm or another 30 posts saying “why not syncthing?” - glad to see the couple to comments including OP and yours as constructive.
that being said, i’m a syncthing user, including running my own (st) discovery server on openwrt. aside from some annoyance at rather frequent conflicts and being browser based, im running it on all 5 major OSs, including ios (mobius sync) and android.
i strongly disagree that running it on a phone is a pain, and in fact, found it the most reliable and versatile sync solution for ios by far - and that includes icloud, dropbox, google drive and google photos.
the only thing that comes close is apple photos, but that’s specifically for photos. and that too, only because of the deep os integration, ie always running in the background and allowing seamless access to older photos that are not on device. even then, there’s always a mysterious slight difference in # of items reported on the mac vs the phone - “eventual consistency”, where “eventual” is t=infinity i suppose.
From the README: i built this to solve a specific problem: syncing files on a locked-down school laptop where python was one of the only things i was allowed to run.
While I can understand (while disagreeing) why my comment was downvoted, it is beyond my comprehension why it was in addition _flagged_. I expressed my view on usefulness of one's effort and I barely scratched the surface. Nothing in my comment was even remotely disrespectful to the author; I am in fact sympathetic to the guy and I think I was in his shoes many times. I can't think of any other violation of anything that led someone to flag. If someone was feeling strange or dubious about my comment, a civilised way is to ask "what did you mean", wait for reply and then judge.
This site is a democratic place; thus I am asking the flagger to tell what in his mind was the alleged reason for flagging.
I have been a Resilio Sync user for a while but find it increasingly fragile and prone to randomly breaking. Reconnecting always seems to be a roll of the dice if something gets deleted and I suppose this is a good time to figure out if there are better alternatives.
Syncthing on iOS still seems to be iffy so I'd be interested if Sink can help fill in this space eventually.
What is the selling point over the very mature Syncthing? I’ve been using that for this use case for many years, with the additional benefit of also being able to sync it to my server, having a UI and being in all package managers already.
being fr, i never even knew about syncthing until now. it's (clearly) a lot better, but again, the reason I made this is because of my school's software whitelist. they only allow certain apps to run on my laptop, one of them being python due to out compsci class. since then, I've been using it to get around whitelists and make my own stuff.
this allows me to sync up me and my friend's stuff (like projects, etc.) while we're in school and not have to worry about the whitelist :)
That’s perfectly valid. Maybe add it to the top of your readme explaining what problem it solves (need to sync files between machines and all you can use is python).
This kind of whitelisting does absolutely nothing. It's a straight up lolbin. Anyway, if python is allowed, then surely other languages can be added to whitelist. Ask them to whitelist go and use syncthing
trust me, I've tried asking for other programs to be on the whitelist. if they didn't allow firefox, they definitely won't allow synching. and I don't wanna get in trouble either lol
In high school they had a few information kiosk computers spread around the various buildings; two in the library, one in the main reception, one in the cafeteria, and one in the mostly unused hallway right outside the computer club room. They were locked down so you could only navigate some intranet pages using a rudimentary on-screen keyboard, with the rest of the hardware in a locked cabinet.
Guess which one got digitally defaced a couple of times each semester. Guess which ones got left alone. Genius move by the IT guy. Every time it happened he would come talk to the club members about the difference between whitehat and blackhat hacking but other than that nobody ever got in trouble.
Syncthing is the most confounding user-unfriendly software I have ever had the displeasure of using. It makes a process that should be pretty easy, pick some folders and share some keys remarkably painful and convoluted.
Syncthing is software where i think reading the manual is recommended. it is a fine manual and clears up a lot of the confusion. There's a lot of complexity "under the hood" and trying to just intuit it from the settings is... as you know... confusing.
I have more mixed feelings about Syncthing than you.
I personally think it’s a power user tool rather than an easy to use tool. The UI can feel intimidating but is actually pretty coherent once you understand how Syncthing works.
I would compare it with Git in terms of ergonomics : a powerful tool with its own jargon that you must understand to be able to use it.
Like git, Syncthing chose to expose its internals to the user rather than hiding it behind something magic. But like git, I don’t feel like there are unnecessary complexity. Once you understand it, it’s easy to make it work because it makes sense.
resilio sync (formerly bittorrent sync) has a nicer UI and its probably easier to use. ive been using syncthing for 5+ years now though and can't think of the last time i had any issues with it. its probably just a bit more confusing if youre coming from something more polished and centralised like dropbox or those types
I still use Unison as it is simpler than Syncthing.
It does have GUI, which I use. I wouldn't call it pretty or polished, but it works and I understand how it works and the way it works is exactly how I think syncing should work.
I've also configured it to run a GUI diff tool diffuse to easily combine changes in case of conflicts (when a file was changed on both sides since the last sync).
I wish it was a bit more modern and re-written in a modern language, but that's secondary qualities for a program.
I especially like that Syncthing can do encrypted revision backups to untrusted servers. My workstation and laptop get synchronised. And in case I ever accidentally overwrite a file, there’s the past five revisions on an offsite server.
Syncthing is great but I really wish for a syncthing-lite you could deploy and configure easily.
The version we have today is really suffering from a lot of legacy.
I remember they are working on a big v2 with a revamp of the API which is a mess but they had to give up on getting rid on that horrible XML config file because it was too much work.
Be aware they also recently silently disabled the sync of symlinks on the android build, what can cause a lot of bad surprises.
They did define some specs of their protocols [0] but i haven't seen a alternative implementation yet.
SyncThing's insistence that a web UI be how you do everything has caused me quite a few headaches. Especially when said UI regularly breaks accessibility tools.
(The team do tend to fix those accessibility problems pretty fast. But spending a couple days a month working around a tool is not my idea of fun.)
As reference (for feature comparison or whatever) here are some tools I use to keep things in sync, some have already been mentioned:
rsync - I think everybody knows this
rclone - modern feature packed tool similar to rsync, but also more complex
croc - a modern cross platform file transfer utility
syncthing - sync service with web gui to keep multiple devices in sync
LocalSend - An open source GUI tool also for mobile devices
restic - a tool for encrypted backups with rolling hash deduplication
immich / ente.io - Photo backup app with frontend and backend
zfs - filesystem with send and receive
All of these are (partly) open source and free to use. Hope it helps.
Haven’t looked at this yet but have been amazed at rsync for a similar task. Used it to deploy and maintain a retail digital experience across a few dozen stores more than a decade ago and it was great. Use it for small home projects now.
I used to use Firefox tabs too but I look at links maybe once a week and keeping too many tabs is annoying for me. So I am back to emailing notes and thoughts
Totally understand your doubts.
I mainly made this program to solve a tiny issue that got annoying and repetitive, so I asked myself, "Can I automate this?"
1. Since I mainly use Windows (for school software to run), I cannot simply do this, considering our school blocks any 3rd part app that isn't in their whitelist.
2. Sure, it doesn't _replace_ a USB drive, but it makes it a lot easier, which can _lessen_ the use of a USB drive.
3. Again, I really just made this for myself and a couple of friends at my high school so we can share projects without too much hassle. I just wanted to share it with the world because maybe someone else has the same dumb problem, which could help them too.
It's not meant to be a business, just a tool. I'll call that a win if it saves one other person from emailing a file to themselves.
Haha. I guess I had heard the story of dropbox, why not ftp, but I guess this was the story!
I guess it is funny to me that SVN/CVS was there in 2007 since I think git wasn't even invented at the time but now new people won't even know what SVN/CVS are, I only got to know them because I wanted to download a specific folder of github and some stackoverflow comment mentioned svn
Apparently, the first version of Git was released in 2005, but I’m not sure a lot of people have heard about it before GitHub has been launched in 2008.
Wild times! (I was 10, my preferred source control system was “eh I have a backup somewhere I think”.)
I don't really understand what the difference is to syncthing (or value over syncthing, as it is very mature and also works across the Internet). You share folders and other devices are discovered locally and you decide which devices to trust and to share with.
We want this place to be welcoming and friendly, not brutal and mean to newcomers and students. I'm sure you don't want to be that kind of person, or having that kind of effect, in any case.
Can you please not post like this to HN and especially not to Show HN threads? (There are special rules for the latter: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html.)
I'm sure your intention was to be helpful, but this reads like a putdown, and the kind of effect that putdowns can have on newcomers, students, and so on is exactly the opposite of what we would like HN to be.
Can you please not be a jerk in HN comments and especially not in Show HN threads? There are special rules for Show HNs: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html.
Keep in mind that not everyone sharing their work here is a grizzled veteran. Some are enthusiastic people learning to do something for the first time. The community here should welcome such users, not beat up on them, which is the effect that a comment like yours can all too easily have (though I'm sure this was not your intent).
We want this place to be welcoming and friendly, not brutal and mean to newcomers and students. I'm sure you don't want to be that kind of person, or having that kind of effect, in any case.
lol sure i "reinvented it" but the reason I made it in the first place is because my school's whitelist. they whitelisted certain apps (like Python 3.11, for our Comp Sci class) and i've been using that since to get around the whitelist :p
I solved this problem again recently as well. After evaluating various synchronisation methods I thought it would be a good idea to design a new methodology which doesn't reinvent the wheel. Completely out of the box thinking. It took a few days to come up with a solution which worked on paper and a couple of weeks to implement it. I call this onecomputer. What you do is uninstall all sync software from your devices and put everything other than the primary one in the cupboard. Job done. No problems with conflict resolution. No race conditions. No resource and locking issues. Fast, reliable and does not depend on any third party provider or network. It just works. No wheel reinventing - this is uninvention.
The phone here basically does IMAP (which is sync I suppose) and gets plugged into the computer and stuff copied around as required manually, which turns out to be rarely as it's not the primary device!
More seriously, I am mostly working like this now. I've had at least some data loss or reliability from every single sync solution I've tried so am practicing avoidance where possible.
I really want something to work but I can't find anything that does and I've tried all major ecosystems and syncthing etc.
its something, lets move along quietly and hope they dont notice...
also not sure why so many have a love affair with syncthing, id never heard of it but more diverse software in the world is a good thing imho. the more wheels reinvented the better, its fun!
I spent a decade as a lead on an industry-leading commercial sync product. Once you start working on details, tools like this can get very time consuming.
(They're also very fun to work on.)
The devil is all the corner cases, and there are a LOT of corner cases in sync; especially if you handle renames as renames. (IE, instead of treating a rename as a delete and recreate.)
My $0.02: Decide if this is a one-off project, hobby, or something you want to turn full time. Remember that what might seem like a bug, or a weekend project, could turn into a long coding journey. It's important to understand your commitment going in, because you don't want to "bite off more than you can chew."
You can find my website in my profile (and thus email) if you want to contact me and ask anything.
It's also much more stimulating to build something than ask like a pedant "why this exists when Syncthing?", so, I guess the joke's on them.
came back curious to see if the discussion took a different direction from besides sarcasm or another 30 posts saying “why not syncthing?” - glad to see the couple to comments including OP and yours as constructive.
that being said, i’m a syncthing user, including running my own (st) discovery server on openwrt. aside from some annoyance at rather frequent conflicts and being browser based, im running it on all 5 major OSs, including ios (mobius sync) and android.
i strongly disagree that running it on a phone is a pain, and in fact, found it the most reliable and versatile sync solution for ios by far - and that includes icloud, dropbox, google drive and google photos.
the only thing that comes close is apple photos, but that’s specifically for photos. and that too, only because of the deep os integration, ie always running in the background and allowing seamless access to older photos that are not on device. even then, there’s always a mysterious slight difference in # of items reported on the mac vs the phone - “eventual consistency”, where “eventual” is t=infinity i suppose.
This site is a democratic place; thus I am asking the flagger to tell what in his mind was the alleged reason for flagging.
Syncthing on iOS still seems to be iffy so I'd be interested if Sink can help fill in this space eventually.
For quickly sending a file, url, text or whatever between two devices, I usually use a selfhosted version of https://tnxfr.com (https://github.com/mustakimali/just-an-email). Thanks to a web interface, it works on almost every device.
well, aside from getting students more interested in programming, apparently.
Guess which one got digitally defaced a couple of times each semester. Guess which ones got left alone. Genius move by the IT guy. Every time it happened he would come talk to the club members about the difference between whitehat and blackhat hacking but other than that nobody ever got in trouble.
I personally think it’s a power user tool rather than an easy to use tool. The UI can feel intimidating but is actually pretty coherent once you understand how Syncthing works.
I would compare it with Git in terms of ergonomics : a powerful tool with its own jargon that you must understand to be able to use it.
Like git, Syncthing chose to expose its internals to the user rather than hiding it behind something magic. But like git, I don’t feel like there are unnecessary complexity. Once you understand it, it’s easy to make it work because it makes sense.
It does have GUI, which I use. I wouldn't call it pretty or polished, but it works and I understand how it works and the way it works is exactly how I think syncing should work.
I've also configured it to run a GUI diff tool diffuse to easily combine changes in case of conflicts (when a file was changed on both sides since the last sync).
I wish it was a bit more modern and re-written in a modern language, but that's secondary qualities for a program.
Syncthing is great, but it does include everything and the kitchen sink. That's often great, but not always.
Syncthing is great but I really wish for a syncthing-lite you could deploy and configure easily.
The version we have today is really suffering from a lot of legacy.
I remember they are working on a big v2 with a revamp of the API which is a mess but they had to give up on getting rid on that horrible XML config file because it was too much work.
Be aware they also recently silently disabled the sync of symlinks on the android build, what can cause a lot of bad surprises.
They did define some specs of their protocols [0] but i haven't seen a alternative implementation yet.
- [0] https://docs.syncthing.net/specs/index.html
(The team do tend to fix those accessibility problems pretty fast. But spending a couple days a month working around a tool is not my idea of fun.)
It does have `syncthing cli ...` which -I think- lets you do everything but to call it obtuse would be an understatement.
I also recommend magic wormhole.
I stopped doing that after learning about the sync feature in Firefox, and the option to send tabs across devices.
(It is, of course, the famous Dropbox comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863#9224)
I guess it is funny to me that SVN/CVS was there in 2007 since I think git wasn't even invented at the time but now new people won't even know what SVN/CVS are, I only got to know them because I wanted to download a specific folder of github and some stackoverflow comment mentioned svn
Wild times! (I was 10, my preferred source control system was “eh I have a backup somewhere I think”.)
https://github.com/sirbread/sink/commits/main/
We want this place to be welcoming and friendly, not brutal and mean to newcomers and students. I'm sure you don't want to be that kind of person, or having that kind of effect, in any case.
I'm sure your intention was to be helpful, but this reads like a putdown, and the kind of effect that putdowns can have on newcomers, students, and so on is exactly the opposite of what we would like HN to be.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Keep in mind that not everyone sharing their work here is a grizzled veteran. Some are enthusiastic people learning to do something for the first time. The community here should welcome such users, not beat up on them, which is the effect that a comment like yours can all too easily have (though I'm sure this was not your intent).
We want this place to be welcoming and friendly, not brutal and mean to newcomers and students. I'm sure you don't want to be that kind of person, or having that kind of effect, in any case.
Or shall I also put the “onesmartphone” in the cupboard?
More seriously, I am mostly working like this now. I've had at least some data loss or reliability from every single sync solution I've tried so am practicing avoidance where possible.
I really want something to work but I can't find anything that does and I've tried all major ecosystems and syncthing etc.
also not sure why so many have a love affair with syncthing, id never heard of it but more diverse software in the world is a good thing imho. the more wheels reinvented the better, its fun!